I Canceled My Basecamp Account Today
Douglas Karr
In the past, I’ve been a fan of 37 Signals. I believe that they were ahead of their day in user interface design and simplicity. Their book, Getting Real, still has an impact in how I develop, design, and build product requirements. I’ve utilizing a Basecamp account and tracked several of my projects and clients in there since last summer.
While reading the 37 Signals blog over the last year, I’ve noticed that the tone of the blog has changed dramatically, becoming more judgmental and finite rather than inquisitive and exploratory. Case in point, this post. 37 Signals totally dismisses online/offline applications on the premise that connectivity is something we will all have, everywhere. Here’s my comment that I wrote on the blog:
The perspective you’re looking at this is so narrow that I’m genuinely shocked as a fan of 37 signals. You are mixing online and offline functionality with Internet Connectivity.
This is not a question of being connected, it’s a question of resource management. If I can have an application that utilizes the resources of a laptop as effectively as that of a server, as well as balancing the use of bandwidth between the two, it can create a fantastic user experience for all involved.
I also added a note that the use of the f-bomb was absolutely unnecessary. In a poll I did on my blog, about 40% of the response stated that they didn’t like the use of cussing on the web. In many posts, I’ve seen it used in a humorous fashion… but in the 37 signals blog it was confrontational… to me, the reader that might disagree with them. It was disrespectful. Don’t get me wrong, I cuss (too much). But I don’t do it on my blog where I try to connect with my readers rather than alienate them.
Swearing is not the reason I canceled my Basecamp Account today, though. Out of the 12 users I had, I was the only one that actually used Basecamp. I think one other friend of mine added a single To-do item, other than that I was the only user for the last year (and I paid for the account). IMHO, the real test of an application’s usability is whether or not people actually use it. My clients and co-workers didn’t. In fact, I think they avoided using it because it was not that user-friendly.
That’s also not the reason I canceled, though. A couple days ago, their blog introduced another chunk of ignorance: People don’t scroll…emails. Perhaps they should have spoken to the 6,000 clients that we serve that get incredible conversion and click-through rates on well designed emails that require scrolling. ‘Above the fold’ theory still stands - the information that readers see when first opening an email is what engages them. That does NOT mean that they don’t scroll, though! So - without any data to support their ridiculous statement, readers of the Signals vs. Noise blog will now believe them and write emails that are not informative, useful, well-designed, etc… all because some blog told them that this was the definitive answer.
The reason why I canceled my Basecamp account is that I’ve lost faith in 37 Signals. I’m not sure if it’s arrogance from the growth and success of their company, but their glow has fizzled. I’m still a fan of some of the simple functionality of their applications… but the applications as a whole don’t seem to be changing the landscape as they had done in the past. See ya later, 37! It was fun while it lasted.
Ironically, I switched to iGTD, a desktop app.
It does seem to be put there to get a reaction, as i noticed that there was nearly 200 comments in the 37 signals blog.
IMHO, the folks behind 37Signals succumbed to something that’s seemingly all-too-common today… the assumption that, well, because OUR company succeeded, then our way of doing things is the right way AND everyone can replicate our success by learning our methods.
Hogwash. There are shockingly many outstandingly brilliant people and wondrous companies that flamed out due to bad luck or bad timing as well as stunningly moronic people and disgusting companies that succeeded due to sheer luck and good timing. Just too many folks overall assuming correlations and causations where none logically exist.
I prefer the more humble approach: Here’s what we did, here’s what our company did… take from it what you will. Perhaps it’d work great for you, perhaps it’s a horrible option for your firm… you know best.
I guess one of the lessons of this is that a blog can be both a blessing or a curse to your company. If you’re a jerk… then your blog will probably reveal that. People don’t like working with jerks. The tone of their blog has really turned me off to their entire company.
What’s interesting is reading the last month of entries and compare them to the book, Getting Real. The tone is so different in their humble beginnings.
It’s like you read my mind, then wrote it down in a far more concise manner than I could have.
I too, un-subscribed from 37s a few months ago due to their ‘we’re right, everyone else is wrong - look at us, aren’t we fantastic’ attitude. Sad, really. They’re undoubtedly talented people.
1. You don’t sound like the target Basecamp customer, especially if you can replace its functionality with a stand-alone desktop app. And if your customers don’t log in, they’re probably getting their PM needs filled elsewhere.
2. Re: swearing, it’s their blog. As far as I’m concerned, I’d rather have straightforward honest content than the whitewashed crap you read everywhere.
3. Thought they weren’t clear, I think they are specifically referring to registration/introduction emails, not email marketing in general. Remember one of their goals is to be as profitable as possible and reduce user frustration by eliminating support needs wherever necessary. If they’re posting this, they’ve probably seen a lot of support requests from people who didn’t full read the emails sent to them. I’m not sure what incentive they have to lie here. And your response strikes me as *slightly* defensive and from the POV of an email marketeer (correct me if I’m wrong).
- SirZ
1. Perhaps. I only went to a desktop app until I can find another shared project management/product management tool. I do believe there must be a great app out there to share with clients - I’m just confident that Basecamp isn’t it judging on the response of my clients. Email was still the primary means of communicating to-do’s, project goals, docs, etc.
2. I’m all for transparency, but you can get your point across without swearing. My point on this is that it’s unnecessary and will alienate some people who may love your products and your company. It’s simply a courtesy out of respect.
3. You’re absolutely correct, my response is defensive as an email marketer. The IT world tends to divide email communications into two groups: operational and marketing. If their point is that Operational Emails shouldn’t be scrolled, then they should provide some basis for that opinion. Simply stating it does not make it true.
Based on our clients, the reality appears much different. I don’t have solid data to support my opposition, but my personal experience is quite the opposite. An operational email on how to register is a perfect place to utilize long copy HTML with screenshots, descriptions, and other great design practices. I might argue that an operational email is a much better place for scrolling than a marketing email since the subscriber actually expects to get the communication!
It’s also the perfect opportunity for upsell and cross-sell opportunities. You’ve got an engaged customer who might appreciate additional product or service offerings based on the content of the email you’re sending.
Thanks for commenting!
I did the Basecamp trial and quite frankly it didn’t live up to the promise that all of the hype led me to believe it would. I’m still having trouble getting them to stop billing my credit card too and they are not terribly helpful from their end.
Customer service is not part of 37Signals lexicon which I find kind of sad because they were riding such a large wave of great PR and general goodwill. In reading this blog and others it seems they have started to erode their perception in the marketplace. just sad.
I hope they understand what they represent to us. 37Signals really became one of the poster children/companies for the web2.0 movement and it would be a shame to see that image polluted.
Here are a few theses from the Cluetrain Manifesto that seem particularly relevant…
18 Companies that don’t realize their markets are now networked person-to-person, getting smarter as a result and deeply joined in conversation are missing their best opportunity.
21 Companies need to lighten up and take themselves less seriously. They need to get a sense of humor.
89 We have real power and we know it. If you don’t quite see the light, some other outfit will come along that’s more attentive, more interesting, more fun to play with.
95 We are waking up and linking to each other. We are watching. But we are not waiting.
…and from Nordstroms…
Make things right with customers or you’ll be left
Their book was a joke to me. Rhetoric from individuals that were bold for the sake of being bold. Certainly most pioneers in all industries doesn’t run with the mainstream, but the f-off attitude is ridiculous. No, being simple for the sake of being simple is NOT ALWAYS a good idea.
I have also always been bugged by their aspirations for Rails, or lack of it for that matter. 37 Signals has stated on multiple occasions that they don’t want Rails to be mainstream or “too successful”, and the fanboys eat it up. Sure…on a principal level that might be nice…but let’s be pragmatic. One of the greatest challenges that Ruby and especially Rails developers face is the relative rarity of environments readily setup for them to utilize. Ruby just does not have the ubiquity that PHP, or even Python does. Although development might be a hobby, I do it mainly to make money. I am lucky that I get to do what I love for a living, but I still need to pay the bills and feed the kids. Asking people to put such faith, effort and resource into something, and then telling them that you don’t want it to be as successful as it could be…thus maximizing the profitability of its usage…seems like hogwash to me.
37 Signals long ago was poisoned by hubris. I am surprised it has taken people this long to start seeing it. They exist as a marketing machine mainly for themselves.
I have at least 4 different Basecamp accounts, and have only used one of them in the last few months. Like you Doug, I see that with each project there were a handful of users who had never logged in, or only logged in once or twice to check it out.
And since there’s no live demo, I’m sure a lot of people sign up for the free account just to check out the software, and end up not using it for something real.
That’s a really interesting point, reminds me of newspaper subscriber counts ;). I’m genuinely surprised at the huge reaction to this post! Looks like quite a few people were waiting for a forum to vent their dissatisfaction.
BTW… that one other person I spoke of was you.
I eventually canceled my Basecamp account too, but more to do with the fact that the functionality just wasn’t what I needed.
You might find this article interesting:
37Signals: Business Bloat vs. Feature Bloat
See ya Basecamp.
Rarely used it, and neither did my clients (as evidenced by last login dates). Called them this morning, asking if I should keep it up. To my surprise (?) every single one of them (4) said NO!
John.
PS, my email to them:
“It has nothing to do with the whole ‘f-word’ controversy,
you can curse all you like, so do I…
The problem is that I caught myself cursing WHILE using
your tools and I’ve found it very difficult to get/keep
my clients to use BackPack.
Recently I lost a project/client mid-ways because of bad
communication (and BackPack played a major role in this).
An informal interview this morning revealed ALL of my other clients were cursing it too, so the decision was easy…
FYI, some of my/their qualms:
- Integration with email and ‘normal’ project flow is bad/
non-existent (seems like HighRise’s cc-email may be
somewhat of a solution)
- Site is simply too slow
- File-versioning is insufficient and too basic
- Tools are not properly integrated (writeboards, 1 year later, still a friggin’ meta-refresh?, so a simple browser back button doesn’t work)
- Writeboards, my favorite part of your site, suffers from buggy, simplistic formatting tools (one client told me she spent hours trying to get indented bulleted lists right)
- Last but certainly not least, as I’ve just found out, data export is RIDICULOUSLY BAD. WTF cares about an XML export, but I still have to download all files separately, save the writeboards separately, etc. etc.”
You were once ahead of the curve, but these are fast times and I think it’s time for some honest introspection.”
We simply share what’s worked for us. If all of it works for you, great. If some of it works for you, great. If none of it works for you, great. Take whatever value you find and leave the rest behind.
You may want to review this chapter from our book:
http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_and_other_preemptive_strikes.php
Specifically:
“You take too much of a black and white view.”
If our tone seems too know-it-allish, bear with us. We think it’s better to present ideas in bold strokes than to be wishy-washy about it. If that comes off as cocky or arrogant, so be it. We’d rather be provocative than water everything down with “it depends…” Of course there will be times when these rules need to be stretched or broken. And some of these tactics may not apply to your situation. Use your judgement and imagination.
First - thanks so much for responding. I never thought this little post would take off as it did. I do hope that you can look beyond the disclaimer you reference in your book and listen to what quite a few folks are saying in this post.
Since you’re quoting your book, I’ll throw in a few references:
1. It looks as though you didn’t hire the right customers.
2. Your personality of your product may have some flaws that need looked at.
3. Riding the Blog Wave has its ups AND downs.
As I said in my original post - Getting Real has stood the test of time and I’m still a big fan. I would really challenge your team to review the perspective of your blog, though. It’s really harsh and I’m confident that it could be toned down to help teach others and not yell at them.
A second support request got a similar treatment - a fast, to the point response that did nothing to help, along the line of “it is the way it is because that’s how it is.” A request to make a change in the software out of that support communication went unanswered.
The take-away for me was a feeling of ‘if you have problems with our design, go elsewhere,’ or at the very least don’t write them in.
We share our ideas without a filter. That’s how we’ve always done things and will continue to do things. We believe it’s better to be yourself than to be someone else — no matter the circumstance. Sometimes we swear. Big deal. Sometimes you call us “ignorant.” Big deal. Both are equally offensive if you’re looking for an opportunity to be offended.
We’ve never tried to make everyone happy. We understand some people don’t like how we talk or how we think or how we act. That’s fine. There are plenty of people who don’t like you either. That’s fine. That’s life.
Since you have feedback for us, I have feedback for you. You said: “A couple days ago, their blog introduced another chunk of ignorance.” Regarding: http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/357-people-dont-scrollemails
Are the people who agree with us in the comments ignorant too? Are you comfortable calling all these people ignorant as well? Is Richard Bird ignorant? Is Steven Bao ignorant? Is Ben Richardson ignorant? Is Amie Gillingham ignorant? Is Dave Rosen ignorant? Is Scott Meade from Concept Share ignorant? Is Anthony Casalena from SquareSpace ignorant too? Is Josh Williams from BlinkSale ignorant? Would you post a comment on your blog or ours saying all these folks are ignorant too? Or will you not stand behind your words? Do you mean what you say?
Is Ryan ignorant for posting this?
http://notrocketsurgery.com/articles/2007/04/02/the-mile-high-club-37signals-fuck-yeahs-and-productivity-stock-art
You may want to reserve “ignorant” for comments that deserve it like racism, bigotry, xenophobia — not someone’s opinion on the length of an email.
Of course those folks aren’t ignorant. They do not have the bully pulpit that your blog has. They are simply commenting and supporting based on their personal opinion. Ryan is not ignorant, either. He’s providing his opinion as well. I respect that. And of course, for some, that perception is reality. Perhaps those folks have tested and found success with that methodology.
Your post was not presented as opinion, it was presented as fact. I do believe that it was ignorant. Ignorant is defined as lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact. It has nothing to do with racism or bigotry, etc.
Quite honestly, there’s really no need to respond, Jason. Judging from your response, my assertions are all true. The tone has changed. That’s simply too bad. Best of luck to you and your company.
But the 37 Signals blog does strike me as pretentious. Sort of this “we figured out how wrong y’all are about this stuff” vibe.
You’re also reaching by suggesting that Jason’s post was stated as fact. It’s an opinion based on his experience. It’s an op/ed (opinion/editorial) piece. Scientific research is fact. I don’t think Jason would ever consider his post to be scientific, or fact, or anything other than simply his opinion based on his experience.
And before criticizing, why don’t you kindly ask him if it’s his opinion or fact? I’m sure he’d be happy to answer you. Then you’ll be more informed about his intention. You can make assumptions or you can know the truth.
Lastly, I don’t see how you can logically argue that one person is ignorant but other people who agree with him aren’t. It doesn’t matter who said it first or where they said it. They all agree. The commentors are supporting Jason’s position. So you either believe they are all ignorant or none of them are ignorant. You can’t cherry pick when they all agree.
1. Re: Sore Loser - Sore? Yes. I wrote a post to bring some concerns of mine as a prior customer and the owner of the company comes to my blog and dismisses them. He also dismisses everyone else who commented negatively. That’s unfortunate - I had hoped for more. Loser? Yes. I lost time and money investing in a tool that I can no longer use.
2. Jason stated that this was opinion, and followed up that Chapter 1 of his book states the blog is opinion. My perception (that’s my opinion) was different and I expressed it so.
3. Jason stated it was opinion here, I didn’t need to ask him. As well, remember my reason for leaving wasn’t simply this post - it was an evolution of tone and loss of respect for SvN as well as not using the software that lead me to leave. It wasn’t any single event, it was many.
4. Re: Ignorance: You’re supporting my argument without realizing it. If SvN puts out a blanket statement that nobody scrolls an email, now people can look at that as factual if it’s presented that way. SvN is ignorant for that presentation, the supporters are not. They may be misinformed, but they are not ignorant. It’s precisely the reason I challenged SvN’s theory - blogs need to be held to task when their ‘opinions’ are presented as fact.
Thanks for visiting!
some people seem to be ignorant about ignorance.
Another definition states that ignorance is the choice to not act or behave in accordance with regard to certain information in order to suit ones own needs or beliefs.
This is, in my opinion, why the Email Scrolling blog post at SvN was ignorant. They chose not to investigate or provide valid data to support their theory. And, in fact, that suits their needs since they were plugging their new email format.